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User Poll: Defeat the Tories before the budget or after?

Interesting results so far at the Prog blog site with the latest poll asking people if they think the Opposition Parties should pick an issue and defeat the Government before the budget occurs in the Spring (thus theoretically depriving the Tories the opportunity to define what issues they want to run on) or wait til after (so as to not look like opportunists). It’s still early, but as of this posting, its running 70 – 30 in favour of defeating the government before the budget is brought down.

Keep in mind this is at a site where Liberals, Greens, NDP and non-partisans/unaffiliated hang out (and maybe a few renegade Tories) so thats a pretty strong early indication most would rather do it sooner rather then later. (Go vote if you’re interested in showing your opinion – you dont need to be a registered user at the site to vote.)

I think I’d prefer before the budget myself.. though I’m uneasy at doing it over the BQ’s Afghanistan motion. I’d prefer it on the Environment or any other # of a combination of issues (spending cuts to all these departments which are purely ideologically driven for example).

19 comments to User Poll: Defeat the Tories before the budget or after?

  • Misguided as we may think them, the CPC can hardly be considered dangerous for Canada. GST tax cuts, shoddy environmental legislation, and poor softood lumber deals can be easily reversed.

    The Bloc may not have the power to impose separation but their position in the house of commons provides a national platform to publicly highlight differences between Quebec and the ROC. Support for the Afghanistan mission is stronger outside of Quebec than it is within. Defeating the government over Afghanistan turns it into an election issue that publicizes differences and promotes polarization.

    Chretien already made the mistake of neglecting the separatist movement in Quebec and we came close to a Qui vote. Lets not make the same mistake.

  • The separatists are more dangerous for Canada than the CPC

    This may or may not be true… however, the Bloc Quebecois has no power to encourage or finalize separation; and they are only empowered to foster separatism in Quebec when the Federal Government provides a platform for them.

  • The separatists are more dangerous for Canada than the CPC

    You may want to rethink that. The Bloc holds many of the same ideals that the Liberals do. They help parliament pass socially just legislation while the CPC will continue to propose (and pass if they ever got a majority government) legislation to put Canada back in the stone ages. Yeah they want to separate, but that only makes them dangerous under a government like the Harper government that chooses to pander to the separatist elements within Quebec.

  • The Bloc motion to defeat the Canadian goverment over the Afghanistan mission is thorny (and probably overly simplistic). If the Libs vote against the motion Duceppe argues that the Libs disagree with Quebec sentiment. If the Libs vote for it they appear to be siding with the separatists for opportunistic reasons. The separatists are more dangerous for Canada than the CPC and the other parties need to tread carefully.

    This government deserves to be defeated but the motion must be drafted by a federalist party in such a way that Duceppe has no choice but to support it.

  • wilson61

    Quebec wants Ottawa to keep post-secondary funding promise
    December 14, 2006
    CBC News

    ”Harper has promised to replenish post-secondary funding to the provinces to pre-1995 levels, when former finance minister Paul Martin slashed Ottawa’s education budget.”

    Also, in the May budget, PMSH made this promise:

    The federal government will consult with the provinces to identify ďappropriate roles and responsibilities for each order of government in support of post-secondary education and training.Ē

  • wilson61

    So far, Dion’s NEW enviro plan (he ditched the one he had as Enviro Minister) has outlined the NEP2 on Alberta. When will we see what is in store for Ontario?
    The number 1 GHG emitter in Canada is Onartio Power. The 2 Alberta oilsand polluters COMBINED (#’s 6 & 7 on list of Canada’s worst 10) still do not emit as much GHG as OPG.

    From Polutionwatch:
    1
    Ontario Power Generation
    24,887,358
    ON
    8.97%

    6
    Syncrude Canada Ltd.
    10,367,463
    AB
    3.74%

    7
    Suncor Energy Inc. Oil Sands
    8,599,254
    AB
    3.10%

  • Charlie Barnard

    I’d also like to add that the recent cuts to post secondary education were and extremely bad move. The Conservatives can try to frame it as the funds were a “Liberal promise” but the fact is that the Liberals were the government when they passed their budget and parliament voted in favor of it. Those funds are a government promise, not a “Liberal promise.” Post secondary education is extremely important for this country’s future. This decision and the Mars Rover decision are both very disappointing for this reason.

  • Charlie Barnard

    It’s definitely better for the Liberals to go to the polls before a budget. If they do it after the theme of the election is going to mainly be the environment vs. tax cuts. I think the environment wins that election, but not by as much. The environment vs. weak senate reform and the refusal of the Mars Rover amongst other boneheaded things the Conservatives have done recently would be a much easier election platform.

    If the Clean Air Act is in Committee, why would the Libs rather have an election over the environment than actually get an enviro policy thru parliament??

    First of all it’s a lot harder for the Liberals to run an election on their environmental policies if the Conservatives have already passed a half-decent enviro. plan. Second of all, no amount of amendments can make the clean air act as good as starting from scratch. Not to mention, a proper green plan involved consultations with industry that can’t be accomplished in comity.

  • I just voted “before”. The sooner, the better for this country.

  • mj

    Wasn’t acually singling you out Scott…

  • I never had a problem and never stated anywhere I had a problem with fretting over an election due to cost.

    This neo-conservative social conservative government deserves to be taken down before they cause any more damage to Canada. The sooner, the better (in my view).

  • mj

    So I take it that the cost of another election so soon is no longer a problem?

  • wilson61

    Question Scott,
    If the Clean Air Act is in Committee, why would the Libs rather have an election over the environment than actually get an enviro policy thru parliament??
    Wouldn’t that appear to be talk over action?

  • The budget will be targeted at an election as much as anything else so I think it’s better that we bring them down before hand. While the environment might be a better issue then Afghanistan the NDP is currently propping up the Conservatives on the environment file and Iíve seen no indication that thatíll change any time soon, which effectively takes the environment away as an election triggering issue. Plus just because the Blocís motion is on Afghanistan doesnít mean itíll be the issue of the campaign, the issue that triggers a governments collapse isnít always the issue that defines the campaign.

  • I don’t think doing anything on Harper’s terms is a good thing. The sooner we go to the polls, the better. I say the first week parliament opens, boom!

  • I recall voting for waiting until the budget. It will have better optics, than making it a random bill.

  • [quote post=”20″]Iím seeing a pattern developing here amongst Liberal bloggers. The Liberals should focus on a) the environment and b) cuts to womensí programs. What segment of the electorate do you think is this post-materialist that they care about far-away issues like this? In other words, how many people outside of downtown Toronto would choose reinstating funding to Equal For Women Everywhere! over a personal tax cut?[/quote]

    a) The environment is a big concern amongst Canadian voters – if the recent surveys of what issues are most important to them are to be believed, Environment came in 2nd behind health care according to one. Elizabeth May’s showing out of nowhere in London North Centre for the Greens would also be an indication of that.. as would Harper’s rumoured dropping of Ambrose and an attempt to restart his so-called Green plan. He’s obviously more concerned about it then you – and he should be.

    b)Cuts to women’s programs is one thing – cuts to the other departments to emphasize this government is ideologically driven and doesnt care about the disadvantaged or the less fortunate in society is also going to be emphasized. I also think Canadians wont go for tax cuts if they know it could affect or hurt programs that are beneficial out there. As the Star said in its editorial today,

    The Tories have made it clear that they intend to use Ottawa’s $7 billion surplus chiefly to cut taxes, reduce debt and shrink government rather than reinvest it to boost the three things Canadians care most about, namely health care, the economy and jobs, and the environment, or to seriously address poverty and crumbling urban infrastructure.

    Frame it in that manner.. and Canadians wont go for the short term seduction of a tax cut.

    Just to finish my first thought, Aaron.. Canadians sure as heck are going to care in greater numbers more about the environment and the cutting of these or lack of funding of these programs then they are in the concocted half-measure scheme to reform the Senate.

  • “Iíd prefer it on the Environment or any other # of a combination of issues…”

    I think that you Liberals have been playing it smart by focussing on the environment. It’s all Dion’s got. He was never a minister in an economic portfolio, his economic platform is a handmaiden to his green plan, and his grasp of market forces in Canada is close to nil. Keep in mind also that Flaherty has staked out a CPC economic platform for the coming campaign in his last update…whenever that election comes.

    I’m seeing a pattern developing here amongst Liberal bloggers. The Liberals should focus on a) the environment and b) cuts to womens’ programs. What segment of the electorate do you think is this post-materialist that they care about far-away issues like this? In other words, how many people outside of downtown Toronto would choose reinstating funding to Equal For Women Everywhere! over a personal tax cut?

    You’d better hope that that’s a big group.

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