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This coming from your Blogging Tory insider. Must be a slow month.

I actually like Stephen Taylor as a person. He looked a bit paranoid when he was sitting in the Blogging Room in Montreal during the Liberal leadership convention, but he was in the “enemy camp”, so I don’t blame him (too much). Anyhow, I’ve met him and done some Blogger Hotstoves with him, and really, I find him interesting to talk with and hold no enmity toward him. If all Blogging Tories were like him, the blogosphere would be a much more civil place between the rival blogging camps.

That being said, when the best he can come up with (as a Blogging Tory insider that has obvious contacts within the Conservative government) is lauding the Harvey’s hamburger poll and somehow try to paint that as proof Harper has appeal to the average Canadian, you know that a) the Conservatives have had a terrible month and a half, and b) Taylor’s sources can’t find him any good Conservative propaganda to leak to the public and media (the same media Taylor claims to hate so much, but who will drop everything to get an interview with one of them if they show even scant interest in doing one).

Since we’re now going to get into food polls to determine a leader’s popularity, I point you to some rival food polls that Jeff mentioned, where Dion does extremely well in – in fact he beats Harper in both.

UPDATE: Jeff now tells me he made these polls up… 🙂 ….good one Jeff. But, I can see now that he did so in an attempt to mock the original poll and Stephen’s lauding of it.

36 comments to This coming from your Blogging Tory insider. Must be a slow month.

  • Gayle

    Steve – Klein had great control over the local media, to the point where every news outlet except the CBC agreed they would publish stories about the conservative government one day, and would not publish comments from the opposition parties on those stories until the next day. It was an ironclad rule, and if you broke it you lost your access to the government (or so I learned from a documentary on the CBC). The legislature rarely sits as well, and thus prevents the opposition party from having a public forum where they question the government. When it does sit the MLA's just push through whatever legislation is on the table and then they close down.The end result is that most Albertans have the impression the provincial liberal party is incompetent and incapable of leading.Add to that the provincial prosperity and most people see no reason to vote otherwise. Sure the poor get screwed, but a lot of liberals do not care about the poor either.

  • “Perhaps, Ontario is so socialized into Liberalism, that theyre as incapable as Albertans of voting against their hereditary chosen party”

    Olaf, you can’t be serious?? Ontario has had many Tory provincial governments, has voted for the Conservatives in national elections. Just because Ontario rejected a hard right Reform Party doesn’t translate into Liberal only. I believe Harper won more than a few seats in Ontario when the Conservative Party was re-constituted.

    When is the last time Alberta had a provincial government that wasn’t Conservative? Yep. How many Liberals have been elected federally in the last decade? Yep.

    That argument has no factual basis. If you want to say Ontario leans Liberal fine, but to compare itto the monolith that is Alberta politics is apples and oranges.

    I don’t buy the argument that Albertans are all social conservatives and wingers. Having said that, I was constantly amazed to hear people I met, who exhibited liberal leanings saying they voted for Klein. I attributed the strange affiliations more to a sense that only the Conservatives really stood up for Albertan interests, which seemed to trump root belief systems.

  • Gayle

    Scott – First I should retract the snarkyness in my last post. I should learn by now that it is not safe to drink and post :em20:

    I think where you erred is in your acceptance of the proposition that a French speaking liberal leader is what is turning off Albertans. In fact, there are many French speaking communities in this province. I had a friend in university who grew up in northern Alberta and did not speak a word of English until he went to school. While some Albertans may not like a French speaking PM, I do not think that thinking is more prevalent here than anywhere else.

    People here have posted that it is “liberal arrogance” that is turning off Albertans – and I agree.

    I also agree that Alberta shares the blame for their political isolation in this country and have stated that many times, however it is not as simple as:

    “…if Albertans want to show theyre progressive, they can vote for one of those, instead of voting for the Conservatives, and in large #s.”

    It takes two to tango. It would be nice if liberals made a bit of an effort. Frankly, the NDP make more of an effort than the liberals do in the Edmonton ridings.

    People here associate the liberal party with Ontario and Quebec. People in Ontario often tend to be dismissive of Albertans. Even on liblogs I continuously see posters denigrating Albertans as a bunch of inbred hicks. It is bigotry and it is insulting, and I agree with Olaf on this one – it is one of the biggest reasons why the liberals cannot get elected in this province.

  • Gayle: I’ve already clarified what I meant by that statement.. As with the Tories.. you’re looking at the original statement and not the clarifications.

    As for Alberta and Albertans, the Liberals have their platform, as do the NDP and the Greens. if Albertans want to show they’re progressive, they can vote for one of those, instead of voting for the Conservatives, and in large #’s. Till then however, or until we get a form of Mixed Member Proportional Representation electoral reform that will take into account those progressive votes in Alberta which would allow the non-Conservative parties some seats, I view Alberta as a lost cause, with the possible exception of maybe Edmonton.

  • [quote comment=”4408″]Good thing we have tolerant Ontario to protect us from mean ‘ol Alberta. Where is Brockville, again?[/quote]

    A big red herring Aaron… where did I say anything about Albertans being intolerant?

    Following in the footsteps of your Conservative heroes I see by twisting statements… keep it at your blog, Aaron if you want to post distortions. Don’t post it here.

  • Gayle

    That said, Scott, as an Albertan who is progressive, I really, really hate what you have said here. It sounds arrogant and simply feeds the fire.

    I consider myself well informed and progressive. When I read things like:

    At this point, I could care less about Alberta

    It makes me wonder why I bother. Please try to remember you are also insulting the people who share your point of view, as well as cementing the opinions of those who do not.

  • Gayle

    Olaf

    Since 1905, Alberta has had 4 changes in government (liberal, UFA, social credit and conservative). We have had a conservative government since 1971 – that despite the fact that Klein has been proven to be anti-democratic (let us just get rid of that pesky legislature by not sitting), and corrupt.

    For you to compare that to Ontario is, quite frankly, laughable.

    I was born and raised in Alberta, by the way.

  • Good thing we have tolerant Ontario to protect us from mean ‘ol Alberta. Where is Brockville, again?:

    Images of intolerance littered our newspapers and polluted our television screens. Again and again, the media showed the spectacle of a handful of zealots in Brockville, Ontario, trampling the fleur-de-lis. Ontario mayors who declared their municipalities English-only were portrayed as anti-French and anti-Quebec.

    Some advice. Forget Alberta. See if you can actually win your own Ontario riding back from us evil Albertan Conservatives. Then worry about Alberta. :em19:

  • Good thing we have tolerant Ontario to protect us from mean ‘ol Alberta. Where is Brockville, again?:

    Images of intolerance littered our newspapers and polluted our television screens. Again and again, the media showed the spectacle of a handful of zealots in Brockville, Ontario, trampling the fleur-de-lis. Ontario mayors who declared their municipalities English-only were portrayed as anti-French and anti-Quebec.

    Some advice. Forget Alberta. See if you can actually win your own Ontario riding back from us. Then worry about Alberta. :em19:

  • Dan lives in Alberta.. its expected he is to be more hopeful. He has a bias about that 😉
    But, outside of Edmonton, I don’t see a lot of progressive thought out there. And, in case you didn’t notice, Ontario is not a complete monopoly for Liberalism – there are 3 active parties there that can get seats. During Chretien’s terms, yes, he did stunningly well in Ontario, but there was no Liberal monopoly before him, nor has there been since (nor will there be).

    Alberta has been a monopoly for the Conservatives both provincially and federally for as long as anyone can remember… and when they weren’t voting for Tories provincially.. they were putting in Social Credit for ages upon ages. They are not attuned to the more progressive political values that many of us on the centre-left espouse.. I frankly don’t see any part on the progressive side making a break through – be they Liberal, NDP or Green.. not unless we can get some more mass immigration to there from the East to work in the oil fields… progressive thought through assimilation might be the only way to go :em23:

    And, Alberta isn’t “the West”. In my opinion, We (as in the Liberals) should be focusing more on places we have chances in – like everywhere else BUT Alberta. There is good electoral hope for us in BC and Manitoba.. less in Saskatchewan, but I’m counting on the NDP to wipe up the Tories there over the fiscal imbalance discontent.

    Your outrage is amusing, Olaf.. but my point has been (which you Conservatives have all gotten sidetracked from in your anger at it being pointed out the rather obvious fact that elections aren’t won or lost in Alberta’s rural ridings) that I could care less whether some Albertans hate the fact the Liberals have a leader from Quebec (There wont be one from Alberta any time soon, if that’s what they want) or they hate official bilingualism. A long line of leaders has come from Quebec for the Liberal Party dating back to Laurier, and the party embraces bilingualism. If some of the Alberta rednecks hate it.. I shrug.. they weren’t going to vote for the Liberals anyhow. If they hate that so much, there’s no point in trying to appease them.

  • “…since its a built in culture to dislike the Liberals there, theres no point pandering to them.”

    Despite your support of electoral reform, you seem to know very little about the distorting effects of the current system. By the way: Did you know that the current mayor of Calgary (recently re-elected) ran as a Liberal candidate in the 1997 election? Someone forgot to tell Calgarians about their anti-Liberal culture, I guess.

    Anyway, what’s all this I hear about the Liberal Party being a national party? Pretty hard to be a national party while writing off entire provinces.

  • Scott,

    You know what I mean, Olaf.

    I know what you mean: focus on the areas where the Liberals can do the most electoral damage, and forget those pesky unenlightened Albertans, they’re a lost cause. If you ever wanted to know why Bart (as opposed to so many Liblogers) is so well respected across party lines, that’s the reason; he doesn’t treat Albertans like huddled and ignorant conservative masses.

    And if you’re willing to grant Alberta’s collective Conservative bias, are you so willing to grant Ontario’s collective Liberal bias? Perhaps, Ontario is so socialized into Liberalism, that they’re as incapable as Albertans of voting against their hereditary chosen party (or is that just a sign of erudition, to you?). I notice however that you don’t dismiss their collective concerns as easily as those poor unenlightened Conservative Albertans.

    Apparently, Ontarians are collectively enlightened, but Albertans are not only irrelevant in considering broader Liberal policy, but they’re not even worth patronizing. Owch.

    I mean, you can freely reject the idea that Ontarians are all hopelessly and irrationally Liberal, without minds of their own that can be changed, and thus not thinking members worthy of wooing, although it’s difficult when you consider Albertans hopelessly Conservative, and no matter how attractive Liberal policies are, those poor Albertans can’t help but vote Conservative. If Ontarians are capable of voting Conservative, why aren’t Albertans capable of voting Liberal?

    It’s the condescension that is more offensive than anything, and goes a long way to explaining why your party is rejected. Liberals have always been the party of power, and thus have always been more concerned with getting Ontarian and Quebecker votes than Albertans. If you’re curious as to why the party has difficulty getting support in the Prairies, don’t blame ideological biases.

  • You know what I mean, Olaf. Alberta is a conservative province, both socially and ideologically.. by and large. There’s no point in trying to woo the majority of that province by weakening our progressive roots by doing a slide to the right. Better to stick to the message that appeals to the other regions of Canada and try to win votes there then spend time on a lost cause.

  • Scott,

    since (Alberta has) built in culture to dislike the Liberals there, theres no point pandering to them.

    Unlike the rest of the country, which is ripe for the pandering? Only the citizens of provinces who seem susceptible to Liberal pandering will henceforth be granted the privilege?

    Liberals at their finest, I see. :em36:

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

  • Gee Aaron.. how did I know you’d seize on that and not comment on the clarification?

    Let re re-state: I could care less whether certain Albertans dislike that the Liberals have a leader from Quebec or hate official bilingualism… particularly when its irrelevant to the Liberals chances of winning.. since its a built in culture to dislike the Liberals there, there’s no point pandering to them.

  • “At this point, I could care less about Alberta…”

    The Liberal Party at its finest, I see.

  • Scott,

    I said you weren’t cut out for politics because you freely admitted to committing an embarrassing mistake instead of covering it up at all costs, not because you missed a joke. Even my own comment was made jokingly, in suggesting that no politician is able to own up to a mistake. I wouldn’t take it personally. :em36:

  • It does belong to me, but the simple fact of the matter is that Alberta is and has been a wasteland for Liberal prospects (and every other progressive party) for years and years.. (and other then the Edmonton ridings will continue to be) and whether or not they hate that we happen to have a leader who hails from Quebec concerns me little… as also whether some of them hate bilingualism still or not.

    I sounded blunter then I needed to be.. but that’s the simple fact of the matter.

  • At this point, I could care less about Alberta..

    “Beer & popcorn” was getting old, so you thought you’d move on to “Alberta can blow me”?

    I thought this blog belonged to Scott Tribe, not Scott Reid …

  • Shrug.. there were others besides me who took those polls to be real.. for a minute :em49:

    Everyone gets fooled once in awhile, Olaf; that doesnt mean one is or isn’t cut out for anything. After all, you just had a post up not too long ago which said I supported Jack Layton’s policy on negotiating with the Taliban, when I clearly did not say so.

    I didn’t think that meant YOU weren’t cut out for politics (though if I had a choice between misinterpreting a joke post and misinterpreting someone’s position in a post.. mine is far less grievous I’d say :em19: )

  • Did you actually think those polls were real? Yikes… still though, I commend you for admitting it openly. Clearly you’re not cut out for politics (which I imagine you’ll take as a compliment).

    :em36:

  • [quote comment=”4390″]Paladiea,

    You are forgetting simple demographics: the West, BC and Alberta is growing in population, and with that comes more seats. To be honest, I can’t see the Liberals getting much more seats in Quebec, and I don’t think that they could get the Ontario rural seats like they used to.
    [/quote]

    Hmm.. you’re lecturing me on how I can’t tell you about the “West”… and yet you’re lumping in BC as being part of “the West”??

    I can point to a fair # of BC’ers politically who resent being lumped in with “the Western” provinces or “The West” when some of our Albertan separatists claim “The West” of BC and Alberta would make a fine country… they want nothing to do with that characterization.

    Anyhow.. my point to that fella was… other then Alberta; who cares about language issues? And if it makes the Liberals unpopular, that hardly is news – there are a lot of other things politically that have caused that. So, my point was I dont really get concerned if our support of official bilingualism causes the redneck portion of the Alberta population to not want to vote for us.

  • Paladiea,

    You are forgetting simple demographics: the West, BC and Alberta is growing in population, and with that comes more seats. To be honest, I can’t see the Liberals getting much more seats in Quebec, and I don’t think that they could get the Ontario rural seats like they used to.

    Scott,

    Anyways, I’ve just realized, I’ve gone off topic. I hate that when people do that on my blog, so I’m sorry I’ve done it here.

    Now on topic, just because one would rather eat a burger with one leader, doesn’t mean one would vote for his/her party. But I’d say that that fallacy exists with “which leader do you like the best” polls in general.

    But yeah, it’s been a slow month in the political world.

  • Actually all they have to do is win the Ontario rural areas and gain some in Quebec…

  • Scott,

    Considering I live in the West, and you live in Ontario, I think you are a little silly lecturing me on what the West is.

    And the fact is, your statement before simply illustrates the Liberal attitudes towards the West: that it does not matter. And that’s why Westerners don’t like the Liberals.

    If the Liberals want a majority government, they are simply going to have win a lot more seats in the West. It’s plain mathematics, Scott, not spin.

  • I havent seen the NDP doing great in Alberta either of late.. and NBC Dipper, you know as well as I do Alberta is a bit different from “The West” and isn’t the only “western province” out there.

    Nice attempt at NDP spin however :em50:

  • Paul Raposo

    Not surprising at all. All the people I know who are regular users of fast food–at least three times a week–are right-wingers. All the people I know who avoid that junk like the plague are progressive/liberal.

  • [quote post=”557″]At this point, I could care less about Alberta[/quote]

    And that’s why the Liberal party is not going to make majority for a long time, because it has abandoned the West from its plans for the most part. That’s probably why the West doesn’t care about the Liberal party either.

  • At this point, I could care less about Alberta.. It’s been a Conservative haven for a long time… and is not key to winning the next election.

    As for this anti-language spiel… give it up.. that’s so 1970s/1980’s. No one cares about it anymore.. except for far right wackos.

  • Undecided voter

    Gee Scott – maybe your right – who in their right mind would vote for a party that segregates its employees and the country by language.
    I guess you Liberals would just love to put this language thing to bed but its not going away.
    I dont see your party fighting Quebecs anti-english language sign law, bill 101.
    Hypocrite comes to mind.
    Oh, when was the last time the grits had a leader from other than the Quebec Nation. Sure know how to bring the country together – bet your party is real popular in Alberta. :em62:
    http://www.languagefairness.ca/
    Game on!

  • foottothefire

    Well, I could think of no comparison better that one linking Steve (can we call him Steve, now?) to a hamburger patty. From all points of view – his profile (literally), his profile (figuratively), his past and his future – Steve has never achieved a larger, more poignant moment in life.

  • Hey Undecided:

    a) thats so old news it no longer resonates except among Blogging Tory and particularly among SDA fanatics.
    b) Your handle is so untruthful – when are you switching it? You’re no Undecided Voter – you’re a Conservative partisan thru and thru.

  • sassy

    Hi Steve,

    Came across an interesting poll (result) at where’d that bug go? earlier today.

  • Undecided voter

    I would sooner have a hamburg with Steve than “beer & popcorn” with whats his name or share chewing gum with Dingwall. :em62:
    I wonder if Dingwall got all of his entitlements?

    Undecided Voter.
    http://www.languagefairness.com/Quotes.php

  • You know that I made my two polls up, right Scott? 🙂

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