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Bullies dont stop bullying till you stand up to them.

By the way Impolitical, I agree with your assessment of the Harper government’s style of governing, but they’ve been bullying because we the Liberals have been allowing them to get away with it. (I’d have written that in comments to your posting, but since you dont allow comments, this was the next best place to respond).

[email protected]:50am: My reply would also be relevant to Steve’s post, even though I know Steve and I are on the same page about forcing an election. I’m just providing the obvious answer to his posed question :).

14 comments to Bullies dont stop bullying till you stand up to them.

  • Mat

    Scott, like you, I think the Libs should take this government down. Did you see this letter to Dion? It’s posted at CalgaryGrit.

    I think stuff like that needs to get out and make the rounds; these are the grassroots voices that aren’t being heard on this debate. Immigration matters to thousands of Liberal supporters.

  • tdwebste

    Greg, billg

    After a while refusal to oppose, does equal implicit support.

    This is a sad situation, if don’t like the Conservative running over the independence of the judiciary or giving away our tar said oil resources with effectively no royalties. The world is consuming oil at an ever increasing rate. Not only is accessible oil running out, we are destroying the world that supports our very lives.

  • billg

    Well JB, that wont happen. It wont happen with Harper and it wont happen with Dion or Rae or Iggy, it didnt happen with Martin, Clarke, Trudeau or even Pearson, so when I said who can blame him it was meant with an historical slant to it, because, it seems when its your side doing it its strong leadership, and, when the other side does it its a slap in the face to the majority of Canadians who didnt vote for you. There’s something wrong with a Democratic system that allows 38 to 40% win a majority.

  • If it were a honest coalition, there would be some Libs in cabinet and some Lib-sponsored legislation and policy would be promoted. “…how can anyone blame him?” Easy. He could just as easily work together with the opposition to ensure that all Canadians are better represented. Or, he could cynically use procedure, threats and loopholes to damage Parliament and our basic democracy. He chooses to obstruct and deny the will of the majority. For that, he can most certainly be blamed.

    JB

  • billg

    But my point is that the Liberals job is to oppose, but, opposing means a general election, so, in the system we have now, the Liberals should have voted down the government a year ago, and, then we would have ended up with another minority, then, another election a year after that…see what I mean? The system we have now will forever punish the main opposition party in a minority situation. You, like the present day Liberals will be forced to hold your nose and abstain. There’s no doubt in my mind that Harper is playing this to his advantage but, doing so he’s damaging Parliament and our basic Democracy, but, at the same time, how can anyone blame him? Whether or not we have a minority we still need strong leadership and a strong voice on the world stage, and, again, with the system we have that voice comes from the leader of the governing party be it minority or majority.

  • Billg you have, in a nutshell, stated the NDP position perfectly. The Liberals and Conservatives might as well create a formal coalition government. They are much closer to each other than the Liberals are to the NDP. At least a coalition would be more honest than the “symbolic” opposition the Liberals are putting up these days.

  • billg

    It has to be a coalition. Which to me begs the question, why havent the NDP or the Liberals thought of this yet?? If your the NDP and your always going to be a fringe party at 15%, why not work with the Liberals? And, to answer my own question, its because for the most part the Libs and the Cons are much closer to each other right now then they are to the NDP. Although, I guess in a way it just might work, the Libs right now are finding their way back from the far left, the Cons to gain power had to edge in from the far right, and, much to my delight, the NDP is and stays right where it belongs, a fringe party.

  • Whooee! BillG sorta nails it with, “…the party that wins the minority cant be expected to pass legislation or policy that is opposite of their own…”

    This is at the crux of the problem. If the majority of MP’s push something through, it should not be possible or even desirable for the minority to block the will of the majority.

    Bill’s right about us bein’ destined fer a whole lotta minorities in the future. If those minorities are to work, the idea of “majority rules” must be allowed, even when it is painful to do so. If the ruling minority cannot see fit to allow democracy and the majority to have its way, they should stand aside and invite one or a coalition of the other parties to assume power.

    Minority government cannot work if one minority insists on getting its way against the wishes of the majority. We need to accept the necessity of cooperation in what promises to be perpetual minority governments. There ain’t much of that happening right now.

    JB

  • billg

    MDL had a panel last night and asked about grid lock. The NDP blamed the Liberals and the Conservatives, the Liberal blamed the NDP and the Conservatives and the Conservatives blamed the NDP and the Liberals…it was like a skit from Monty Python. I’m not sure how or when this will change under our current system. We have a 4 party parliament and we’d better get ready for a series of minority governments where, the majority of Canadians dont want the party in power to be in power, and, where the party that wins the minority cant be expected to pass legislation or policy that is opposite of their own, hence the gridlock.

  • Whooee! What I’m wonderin’, ScottFeller, is will the Grits force an election before or after they’ve lost the support of “election hawks” like yerself an’ good ol’ Steve V. I agree a hunnert percent’s worth with you fellers. Bring it on!

    But how much kowtowin’ and enablin’ are Grit supporters willing to put up with? Is there a line in the sand? If the Grits allow two more years of senseless war, wouldn’t that be enough? How ’bout if they allow sweeping changes to our immigration system without any Parliamentary debate? What if they allow the Con’s to quit standin’ up fer Canadians unjustly imprisoned and/or facing execution abroad? Would that be enough to make liberals walk away from the Liberal Party?

    What if there was absolutely no liberal principle they would not sacrifice for a few more months of staving off an inevitable difficult election?

    Sorry to be so harsh on yer party, Scott, but they really have been bringin’ it on themselves. Yer right as rain. Bullies need standin’ up to. I hope yer MP’s catch on before they lose too many of their intelligent, principled supporters — if it ain’t already too late.

    JB

  • Ti-Guy:

    I moderate comments when they are known to be using obvious fake email addresses, and when they’re interpreted by me to be engaged in over-the-top activity.

    I’m not going to turn this blog into a complete echo-chamber however.

  • Ti-Guy

    but they’ve been bullying because we the Liberals have been allowing them to get away with it.

    Would that include persistent trolls like Wilson being allowed to hijack discussions all the time?

    Yes, I know how it works, and I know it’s your blog…I just don’t think Liberals need to present such easy targets for people dialoguing in bad faith.

  • That’s pretty rich Wilson, telling Opposition MP’s to get back to work in Committee, when it’s the Conservative MP’s doing the filibustering and walking out of the room to avoid calling votes they know they’ll lose – all according to plan as their handbook called for.

  • wilson

    re Impolitical’s assessment that Harper was handed a minority government and should govern as such,
    implying that PMSH should do his job and the Opposition’s job too.

    Give your heads a shake.
    Canadians handed the Opposition parties a majority.
    Do your own job!
    Don’t expect PMSH to restrain his government, that’s what Canadians expected you to do.
    PMSH has not abused the powers given to him, the Liberals haven’t used their powers.

    IMO, Canadians don’t want PMSH and his government replaced,
    they want the Opps to oversee (not disrupt) Conservative policy.
    Get back to work in committee,
    and do your job for Canadians.

    If you can’t handle being in Opposition (being bullied)
    why should Canadians think you could handle government any better?

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