“Except here in Canada or in Europe, where there have been no state executions since 1961, and yet our crime rate is an order of magnitude lower than in the US”

=====================

Wrong.
Quite wrong in fact.
Overall crime rates are lower in the US than in Canada.
Now if by ‘an order of magnitude lower’ you meant ‘higher’, then please accept my humble apologies.

I’ll leave it up to you to compare the European and US crime rates.
While you’re at it, you might just want to compare the rates of VIOLENT crime in the UK vs the USA. (hint, one of them has a violent crime rate over 5 times higher than the other).

You might want to look up the definition of ‘order of magnitude, either that or base your opinions on facts instead of liberal myths.

Your mileage may vary…

But as I said before, if you want to prove your assertion that capital punishment does not deter murder, refer to something that could be considered a controlled experiment instead of mindlessly quoting made up ‘facts’ comparing different geographical and political regions.

You do wish to base your opinions on the best information available, don’t you?

Garbage in, garbage out?

@Stan, Except here in Canada or in Europe, where there have been no state executions since 1961, and yet our crime rate is an order of magnitude lower than in the US, so low that single digit increases in the actual numbers of murders can cause a seeming 10% increase in the rate….where ONE counterfeiter can cause the crime rate to skyrocket $300%.

In fact, our crime rate has been dropping steadily since 1991, even without the death penalty, including the murder rate (it reached a 35 year low in 2003 and again last year).

But I guess a “study” from a right-wing “think tank” that confuses causation with correlation is all the proof you need eh? “”"
————————————————

You really can’t think any clearer than that?
Compare the murder rates, not the crime rates, before and after changes in a variable, ie, before and after moratoriums on the death penalty, in the same jurisdiction.
That’s how the big people think.
Your argument is pitifully illogical.
Reread your grade 8 science text, you are the one confused.

In fact, our crime rate has been dropping steadily since 1991, even without the death penalty, including the murder rate (it reached a 35 year low in 2003 and again last year).

But I guess a “study” from a right-wing “think tank” that confuses causation with correlation is all the proof you need eh?

Now if you were to look up an actual scientific study and quote that, it might further your argument.
I’m maybe in a minority here but shouldn’t we base our opinions and decisions on facts instead of liberal myths?
You know, ‘garbage in,garbage out’?

http://www.heritage.org/research/crime/tst082807a.cfm

“Using a panel data set of over 3,000 counties from 1977 to 1996, Professors Hashem Dezhbakhsh, Paul R. Rubin, and Joanna M. Shepherd of Emory University found that each execution, on average, results in 18 fewer murders.[17] Using state-level panel data from 1960 to 2000, Professors Dezhbakhsh and Shepherd were able to compare the relationship between executions and murder incidents before, during, and after the U.S. Supreme Court’s death penalty moratorium.[18] They found that executions had a highly significant negative relationship with murder incidents. Additionally, the implementation of state moratoria is associated with the increased incidence of murders.”

This makes it look like the Liberal caucus and the Liberal leader couldn’t care less about Liberal party members.

(And considering that the former installed the latter, that’s probably not a good thing.)

There are legal reasons why the crown pursues certain charges over others. Ease of conviction is one reason. That’s a bit of a side conversation.

My concern is with the assertion that Abby is a “nice town”, so there wasn’t any hardship involved in these peoples’ lives. I AGREE. There wasn’t. Most come from middle-class to upper middle class homes. So WHY are they “gangstas” and “gangsta wannabees”? It’s not because of some hardship. I live out here, so I know a little about what I’m talking about. It’s because it’s “cool”. That’s right. The PROBLEM is with the “gun culture”. Ask ANY of these kids what their favorite movie is. GUARANTEE 9/10 TIMES IT IS SCARFACE. What do they look up to?

The “Wild West” mentality that has come with the imported American gun culture (and imported American guns) is what’s ruining our youth. More money spent on daycare, and on youth development is key to fighting this. The messages getting to kids is the issue. Gun-lovin’ video games like Halo are among their favorite. Movies that glorify gangsterism and gun violence are like “bibles” to these kids. How-to manuals.

Parental involvement and responsibility is a huge concern. If Mommy or Daddy says, “Sure we’ll lease the Escalade for the family car, and lower it with 25″ wheels and dark smoked windows”… If they have no problem with their kid going and beating up another kid who they have an issue with (and celebrate the fact that their kid is tough)… If they have no idea where their Grade 9 or 10 kid (because that’s when it starts) is on a given evening… If they work two jobs and leave their kid with no supervision, the keys to the liquor cabinet, and money “to buy pizza”… If Mommy and Daddy have no problem buying their kid the typical “gangsta uniform” with the $200 t-shirts, $150 ball caps, etc. and the thick gold chains… If they don’t get involved with their school… If kids aren’t encouraged (no, PUSHED) into constructive activities like sports, or other hobbies…

If we aren’t doing this, then we are failing our kids. It will require a cultural change. More involvement with kids. Idle minds are responsible for these challenges. A gun-lovin’ culture is responsible.

Where do drugs fit in? Another one of the “idle” kids’ “activities”. When I was in high school, it was always the “burn-out” kids who did the dope. They were the most likely to use, abuse, commit petty crimes, etc. Now it’s still that group, but it’s morphed into more of a “cool” thing for others too. When your favorite stars are doing it, why not you, right? We can argue til we’re blue in the face whether the drugs cause the crime, or whether it’s the child’s exposure to a fostering environment, but research clearly concludes it is the environment and addictive personalities which cause the usage. The crime is clearly an end result of the dependence – and lack of money to purchase the focus of the dependency.

If we’re really honest about “causation”, then the “gun culture” is a very important part of the equation. Family influence (or lack of) is a huge part of the equation. Environmental factors are the key.

Statistics prove that “mandatory minimums” are only empty sabre-rattling. Our crime rates (in all Canadian cities) are lower than centers where mandatory minimums exist. The US has created a culture of “prison farms”, and it doesn’t help anyone. Unfortunately, the Canadian public has become so overwhelmed by the “tough on crime” empty rhetoric, that the truth has disappeared. It is also unfortunate, that – knowing the false facts – our political community will need to play to the feeling among the people. One example of the dangers of getting too close to direct “democracy” – or what we can refer to as “mob rule”. It’s almost like well-to-do European citizens during the Inquisition… they – to a person – toed the Church’s line regarding the Earth being flat, “center of the Universe”, etc…. Eventually, science will triumph over fear, superstition, etc.

A must read for Tribe and Mile 0

Maybe a compromise is to only impose a mandatory minimum on repeat traffickers. Let the Judge deal with the root cause defence for first time offenders.