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Reject the Iacobucci offer from this coverup government

I wont be as succinct with my opinion as Steve V is, but I’m going to be as blunt, particularly after reading over there that several sources are telling CBC this Iacobucci referral could take up to a year and half to complete.

Up to a year and a half to issue his report? A year and a half to decide what documents to deny Parliamentary scrutiny under obviously narrow and partisan Conservative government terms of reference? That is nothing but trying to bury the explosive issue before an election can be called by Harper and his Conservatives.

Reject this, opposition party members. This would make a farce of your Parliamentary supremacy motion that you passed if you accepted this pseudo-inquiry. Call for the Conservatives to be in contempt of Parliament with your point of order, and set those wheels in motion. Interrogate those ministers at the bar of the House in the Committee of the Whole. Furthermore, ask for the Speaker to issue a Warrant for those documents, and banish/arrest government cabinet ministers if they refuse.

And what if the Conservatives and Harper threaten to dissolve Parliament and call an election, rather then turn the documents over or face the embarrassment of being in contempt of Parliament? I’m also with Steve V in a comment he made at his post:

“You can’t force an election, saying you don’t believe MP’s have a right to information. That frame scares the shit out of the Conservatives, you’re basically having a rehash of the prorogue question and all the negative sentiment towards the gov’t. Call their bluff…As a Liberal, I would be ecstatic to have a campaign centred around accountability, potential cover-ups and democratic will.

Some folks call this forcing of the issue “the nuclear option”. I say to the opposition parties, be fully prepared to push the button. The Conservatives are not only in contempt of Parliament, but in contempt of democracy as a whole.

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24 comments to Reject the Iacobucci offer from this coverup government

  • Greg

    Marie, all I can say to that is, it depends on the riding you live in. Sometimes a vote for the Liberals is a vote for the Conservatives too. And all because we have a crazy, stupid, electoral system.

    • Red Forever

      Greg

      Sorry if I offended you.

      That was not my intention.

      I wish there was a way to coordinate so that Liberals/NDP voters in ceratian ridings would know how to vote, to get rid of a conservative.

      In my home riding as an example, it is a 2 horse race Liberal and conservative, the NDP has no chance. So yes I would like to see NDP voters switch over to defeat a conservative.

      Conversely in ridings where it is a race between a conservative and and NDPer I would like to see liberal voters vote NDP to stop the conservatives.

      While we might noy always agree with each other, we do have a lot more in common with each other, than the NDP has with the conservatives.

      The NDP and Liberals working together in parliament, have brought more positive change to Canada than you will ever get out of a conservative government.

      Crazy system absolutely it is the one we have right now to work with.

      Thank you for your time.

  • Greg

    Folks, using lines like the following may make you feel better, but will only serve to alienate NDP supporters.

    Right on Red, I couldn’t have said that any better. As for the Dipper’s, they are Harpers best friends. The Dippers haven’t figured it out yet that provincial and federal parties are very different NDP for provincials, Federal forget it. Canadians except them provincially but in Federal, those who use a little common sense know better.

    and

    Voting for the NDP on a federal level is a vote for Harper.

    Btw Chrystal, I am with you all the way.

    • marie

      By your reply It appears that you cannot tell the difference between federal or provincial government either Greg.

      Voting for the NDP on a federal level is a vote for Harper. You had better believe that Greg. The ndp Have zero chance of becoming the official opposition. You know that Layton knows that but keep your blinders on. Color blue and orange is what it amounts too. BTW, those colors clash together. They need to start using a little common sense.

      Folks, using lines like the following may make you feel better, but will only serve to alienate NDP supporters. I don’t think so Greg but it may obstruct a few from voting for them again is more like it. You can’t tell me that a lot of Laytons supporters aren’t mad as hell at that party for supporting Harper to the Pm’s office. Not once but twice and still believe their word. Layton is a user and that’s plain to see. Gullible too it seems. they can make all the promises they want. They sound good but they will never ever come to offical status.

      Sorry Greg, I have many friends who support the NDP and will no matter what. They also cannot think beyond of federal versus provincial. They also do not understand if they want Harper out, they need to vote differently to accomplish the task of defeating Harper.

      On a provincial level, the NDP do very well especially in a unionized province. They have great ideas but anyone can develop good ideas and polices when you have no chance of ever delivering those promises. You know Greg, they could do very well helping the liberals as they have many of the same views as the Liberals. They need to quit attacking the liberals because in actuality, when they do, they are merely attacking themselves.

      End of story, moving on.

  • Fred from BC

    Yes, yes…

    “terrible awful despicable anti-democratic coverup” (etc, etc)

    Put your money where your mouth is and DEMAND that your MP’s bring down this government.

    (or just stop whining…your choice…;)

    • Red Forever

      Fred from BC

      If the CPC has nothing to hide, let them put their money where their mouth is and PROVE IT

      The Harper government should stop acting like jack asses and hand over unredacted documents as ordered by parliament.

      Put your money where your mouth is and demand that from Harper.

      Remember open honest transparent accountable government

      As promised by your leader

      Does any of his behaviour not bother you at all?

  • Am pleased to read posts like this from Liberals I respect. If failure to accede to a Parliamentary Order and hence to honour our democracy isn’t worth an election, nothing else it. And while the Liberals are at it, commit to making proportional representation the TOP priority of your next election platform. Until we get justice for voters, everything is just lip service.

  • Big Winnie

    billg: Remember, the government creates the policies that the military follows. Therefore, the government is responsible for the actions of the military and the military is absolved.

    How simple can it get?

  • billg

    For the past 6 years Liberals have confused me. From the “scary scary” election campaigns to the abortion and same sex marriage scare tactics its been very frustrating to watch a main stream party collapse. Then it was Kyoto and Global Warming and the Green Shift..issue’s that never really helped the environment and only shifted money around. H1N1…Wafergate….Prorouge…and now Afghanastan. The torture of detainee’s is an important one and all involved should be questioned, but, you cant implicate the government without implicating the troops..it cannot be done, and, Im not sure why you guys keep trying. I would imagine there was torture and I would imagine both governments at the time knew, and, I would imagine both Liberal and Conservative govt’s worked to change it. You guys are 0 for about 20 trying to score on issue’s that only come back to bite you in the ass, and, I have no idea why the Liberals are focusing on this one either…it just makes no sense.

    • Red Forever

      billg

      Beautiful straw man argument.

      You want to honour are troops and their sacrifices.

      The best way to do that is to hold the higher ups responsible for their actions.

      If we are fighting for freedom and democracy in Afghanistan, we should show the Afghan people how a democracy deals with these issues.

      We do not cover up, we admit our mistakes, and we hold those who committed those mistakes responsible.

      We show them that we are a country we the utmost respect for human rights, and International Law.

      That will honour our troops.

      It is very sad and disturbing to see the level the CPC has sunk to.

      • marie

        Right on Red, I couldn’t have said that any better. As for the Dipper’s, they are Harpers best friends. The Dippers haven’t figured it out yet that provincial and federal parties are very different NDP for provincials, Federal forget it. Canadians except them provincially but in Federal, those who use a little common sense know better.

        Ignatieff is not going to instigate an election because he believes Canadians do not want an election. He will do so under his own steam. He wants Harper to push the button. We need to bombard their web site and tell him differently. I know that the Libs are getting the messages I have sent and they do respond. Probably doesn’t reach Mr. Ignatieff personally but if anyone has his private email, pass it on for us to use to personally contact him.

        I totally agree with big Winnie, the troops simply follow the orders given to them.

        • Red Forever

          Marie

          I agree with you as well.

          Voting for the NDP on a federal level is a vote for Harper.

          Ignatieff was just about crucified for wanting to bring Harper down last fall.

          I am so sick and tired of the CPC, and their games.

          The contempt and disrespect they have shown for parliament is mind numbing.

          I don’t know when the Canadian people are going to wake up, and realize what is happening
          and hold these jokers to account.

          Stephen Harper is a dangerous and despicable individual

  • Ti-Guy

    Prominent anti-Liberal hate blogger John Baglow is charactising your post and Steve’s as “Liberals starting to sweat.”

    I really wish the Liberals on PB would challenge Dawg on his goading and hatred of Liberals. I would, but I’ve been banned.

    • Red Forever

      Ti-Guy

      Try using a different moniker.

      Put your points across.

      See what happens.

      You will still probably get deleted.

      Those guys have an aversion to common sense.

      • Ti-Guy

        @Red Forever,

        “Try using a different moniker.”

        I’m not physically banned (not anymore). The ban actually suits me, for the most part. But, in any case, I don’t sock-puppet.

        I’m just saying that some prominent Liberal bloggers on PB should object to his baiting and taunting. It’s divisive.

  • bull caller

    I agree. They had their last chance at stalling. Let’s see if Harper is willing to hold on to his toupe and go to election on the issue as he’s threatened. It isn’t as if that would stop the parliamentary officers from seizing documents.

  • Anon ABC

    The opposition parties should file the motion of contempt. The Iacobucci review should have been a non-starter. A Parliamentary Order has been issued to produce the documents. If the opposition parties, in a minority govt scenario, cannot hold Harper accountable, we already have an effective Harper majority, so we should not fear one if an election should be triggered.

    Not sure what Iggy’s strategy is. Yelling every day in Parliament that the Iacobucci review is not acceptable makes him look either insincere (it would help Harper frame the issue that the Libs do not really want to release the documents to incriminate themselves or they would not have accepted Iacobucci) or weak. This is going to be a deja vu with what happened with the coalition where Iggy, by publicly criticizing it, actually helped Harper dishonestly frame it as illegitimate under our system of democracy.

    Similarly, the NDP would look weak too as they could file the contempt motion without the Libs.

    • ck

      @AnonABC:
      Whether or not the Liberals secretly think Iacobucci and his delays are a god send or no, you’re right, why haven’t the NDP brought their own contempt of parliament motion?

      If anything, they will never ever govern, and their numbers won’t deviate all that much no matter what they do. You would think it would free them up to try something bold for a change.

      Take note of this NDP supporters before you go blaming the Liberals for not being a strong enough opposition. Remember, whenever they try to be oppositional, the noisy Harpercon pundits lambaste them for it and convince frightened “centrists” how badk the Liberals are for being contrary to St-Stevie, Canada’s savior.

      How come the NDP doesn’t try to be more oppositional rather than ol’ Jack having backroom deals alone with STevie?

  • Greg

    Iggy is out of Ottawa all week, according to Kady. What are the odds the Liberals will do something while he is on his speaking tour– a gajillion to one?

  • I’m completely with you on this one Scott. If Ignatieff lets this one go by, gives it a pass & lets the Cons have their way then our democracy will be incredibly weakened to the point of no return. Harper has already made many changes to our system. He’s been doing it incrementally, in the background, & if we put all of those things together in one place the public would be shocked to see what he has already done. How can Ignatieff & the Libs keep letting him do this? Perhaps they want, secretively, exactly the same things Harper does. I’m sickened by this entire mess.

    • ck

      @Penlan: How can Ignatieff & the Libs keep letting him do this? Perhaps they want, secretively, exactly the same things Harper does. I’m sickened by this entire mess.

      I don’t think that. Keep in mind, he did originally vote along with the NDP for an investigation dating back to 2001. I think Iggy is trying to convince the so-called centrists who have been led on Steve’s sharp right turn in the past year.

      Problem is whenver Iggy even attempts to do something oppositional, he is lambasted by corporate media and the Canadian public. We have a very noisy Conservative population who would do anything to get rid of STeve’s opposition, while the rest of us do nothing but watch and bitch at Iggy.

      Should Iggy go? No question, but only a general election will get rid of him. Until that time, we’re stuck with him.

      This thing with Iacobucci is problematic to say the least. No question this is buying time so he can get his majority in a fall election and he will more than likely get it then. Corporate media by then will paint the economy as recovered, even if that is farthest from the truth. They will paint Steve as the hero who saved the economy; even if it isn’t true. One thing I’ve noticed, most Canadians have very short attention spans who will drink corporate media economic recovery kool-aid without investigating further.

      As time goes on, our side will have given up on the documents as a dead issue. Pundits like the Blogging Tories as well as corporate media will serve that Taliban are a bunch of lying thugs kool-aid who don’t fall under the Geneva Convention (I have had that mentioned to me by a few of them). Proposterous? Perhaps. But I have noticed more and more that the truth no longer matters in today’s Canadian society, it does not count for much. Only the kool-aid du jour served up by pundits and corporate media count these days.

      So blaming Iggy or the NDP (forget the Bloc these days; Duceppe is on tour promoting Quebec sovereignty in a big way) doesn’t cut it anymore. Our choices become we either make more noise than the neo-con pundits or we wait for the Harpercon majority to steamroll into town. That simple.

  • Big Winnie

    I agree with both you and Steve V. and if I was Derek Lee, I would be raising a point of order to introduce the motion first thing this morning. The “terms of reference” have been disclosed and from what I’ve been reading, the oppostion parties have rejected them. Time to put an end to this farce.

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