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Stupid

Lots of talk this AM about the Black Bloc anarchists destroying parts of Toronto. There is also a lot of talk (notably TVO’s Steve Paikin) about the police using questionable tactics against obviously peaceful demonstrators (I suspect the police decided they were going to use the Black bloc mayhem as an excuse/pretext to treat all protests/protesters the same way).

Those are good topics to talk about, but I wanted to focus on something else this day.

I was saying this yesterday on Facebook and Twitter, but I’ll repeat it here, and in line of what Warren asked in his blogpost today: whichever of the geniuses in the Prime Minister’s Office who thought it would be a great idea to host the 2nd part of the G8/G20 summit in downtown Toronto need to be fired.

I have a conservative friend (believe it or not 😉 – I won’t embarrass him by publicly naming him, but he has done some op-ed columns for several different newspapers) & he and I agree on something; the G8/G20 should never have been held in downtown TO; It should have been kept in Huntsville.

a) If the whole summit had been held in Huntsville, how many Black Bloc troublemakers would have bothered to have shown up there?

b) If some HAD shown up there, it’s a heck of a lot easier to trace them/find them in downtown Huntsville then in downtown Toronto (or at least, I’d HOPE that a billion $ in security measures could help the police do that).

19 comments to Stupid

  • Paul Raposo

    This has been written elsewhere, but I’ll repeat it: Harper hates Toronto, and he has no problem with TO being destroyed.

    He would never have allowed this to happen anywhere else.

    If Ontario voters haven’t figured it out yet, maybe this will be their wakeup call–Harper hates Ontario in general, and Toronto in particular.

  • sharonapple

    Yeah, well, if they didn’t have the G20 in Toronto, there wouldn’t have been the violent protests or the reports of overreach of police power.

    Having the conference in an isolated area like Huntsville or Kananaskis makes a lot of sense. They could have saved money and avoided the mayhem. Sadly, the things that people will probably remember from the G20 is the havoc it caused in the city. It’s all anyone’s focusing on right now.

  • Lucas

    Man, all you spoiled brat protesters should head off to a country that deserves it like Iran and protest there, see how long you granola eatin hippies last then.

    Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy living in the best country in the world.

  • slg

    Yup, blame the police for everything – especially the NDP type.

    Imagine if there were no police?

    I don’t believe the police purposely start stuff.

    Freedom and democracy comes with a price – maturity in your actions and a real purpose other than to bitch about our freedoms.

    I can’t believe some people – like we’re so oppressed.

    • It’s not a matter of what you believe, twit. We know the police were provoking in Quebec City, that’s an established fact.

    • sunsin

      @slg,
      “You blame the police for everything — especially the NDP type.”

      I’ll blame any type of policeman for screwups like this, whether NDP, Conservative, or Liberal. It’s a question of basic competence and honesty, not politics.

      “Imagine if there were no police?”

      Logical error — false dilemma. You lose. There are not just two choices, “no police” and “incompetent police.” We might have “competent, professional police” if your type wouldn’t corrupt them by sucking up to them and telling them that their every mistake is a stroke of genius.

      “I don’t believe the police purposely start stuff.”

      They have a history of doing precisely that. Were you asleep or something?

      “Freedom and democracy comes with a price”

      You don’t get to set that price. And human rights are universal to all. They don’t have an admission fee. Read the Charter if you’re in any doubt about that.

      “bitch about our freedoms.”

      You don’t get to define what is “a real purpose” and what is “bitching.” Other people might consider that you are bitching. Do they then get to put you down?

      “like we’re so oppressed.”

      It appears that illegal actions are being committed by our governments at various levels. That’s good enough for me. I’ve lived in both a right-wing state under martial law (Taiwan, thirty years ago) and a Communist dictatorship, and in neither was I kicked in the teeth every minute of every day. Nevertheless, neither was free. And curiously enough, both were defended in just the tones you are displaying above. I guess there’s something transcultural about licking the blacking off the boots of the powerful.

  • the rat

    Yes, you know they were peaceful because they weren’t violent at the time. Of course you have no way of knowing if police had identified Black Bloc members in the crowd. They don’t show up in black, you know. On video this morning at the holding centre it looks like that is exactly what happened. A white-t-shirted man, whom CTV described as “strangely quiet while everyone else chanted”, stood up and was immediately pounced on by police. Coincidentally a group just happened to be in an adjacent alleyway with backpacks and black clothing. They were hustled out and at that point police used force to disperse the group. I’ll take the police over the black bloc and their useful idiot protesters any day of the week, thank you.

    • sunsin

      @the rat, You trust the police after all that’s happened in the past few years? Including them being caught at faking unrest in Quebec City? That’s not an opinion; it’s established fact. How do you know the police identified anybody correctly? Because they said so? Funny how those “identifications” almost never stand up in court.

      Your anecdote in support is frankly pathetic. Now, for the sake of argument, let us assume that this white-shirted fellow is a baddie. Let us also assume that this group that was supposed to be in an adjacent alley were also baddies. Fine, the police can arrest that one fellow and that group, though if they can’t produce a bloody good reason for doing so at the end of the day they should be fired. But why are police attacking everyone else? Just for the fun of it? Because you call them useful idiots? Well, I suspect in the minds of the protesters, you are the useful idiot. Does this mean that they get to attack you, then?

      And I’d be more careful about running together the mass of the protesters and the “Black Bloc” (whatever that is, and whoever is giving it orders). You, for instance, are taking up a position of blind support for the police that is shared by any number of right-wing nutcases, extreme authoritarians, and fascists. Would you like us to conclude on the strength of that that you are a nutcase fascist yourself? Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander, you know.

      Myself, I’d prefer to believe you’re just confused and stupid. I always prefer to err on the side of charity.

  • sunsin

    Now, it isn’t as if those Blacky Blocky chaps haven’t turned up taking their paychecks from the same man as the police before…. is it? http://rustyidols.blogspot.com/2009/03/official-provocateurs.html

    They didn’t want them controlled because it’s damn embarrassing when your officers get caught in “anarchist” dressup throwing stones and setting police cars on fire.

  • The police just suffered in community relations. If I end up teaching a grade-six class where the students learn from a police officer about values-influences-and-peers, I will protest to the administration. I would still have an officer in the classroom if I my union could not adequately support me. However, I would do so under protest.

  • JMR

    Why couldn’t it have been held in Huntsville after all Harper invited 10 other countries making the G8 into the G18. If room enough for that many there should have been enough room for a couple more countries.

  • Murray

    I say they should hold it in Antartica. Lots and lots of Protestersicles!

  • slg

    Churchill – don’t you think Harper the mismanager and his gang should have figured out that Huntsville wouldn’t accomodate the numbers of people?

    I actually think they could have worked in out in the Muskoka area – this was to buy votes for spendy Clement.

  • Churchill

    There’s a very simple reason the summit wasn’t held in Huntsville. There simply wasn’t enough space there which is why the government very reluctantly moved it to Toronto. Perhaps they could have moved it to Vancouver or Montreal but I don’t think that seeing rioters in those cities would have been a significant improvement.

    • Paladiea

      @Churchill,

      Or you know, Harper could have listed to the Toronto Chief of Police, the mayor, and anyone with a brain and held it at the Exhibition which is designed to hold tens of thousands of people with an eye toward crowd control…

  • Cons hate Vancouver too… They love the “urban-rural split”, and they love to exacerbate it. Even in “fortress Alberta” the hard-core Cons always slam the “city slickers”. I know a lot of the negative names Western Conservatives have for Vancouver too. Oh sure, they’re ok with the “burbs”, but the city proper? Uh-uh.

    This will cost them in the next election. Their seething hatred towards Toronto is now officially “realized”. Everyone knew that protests could get ugly… probably would. Everyone knew the nutbars would show up. People pleaded with the PMO NOT to have the summit in Toronto… It still went through. I guess next Liberal gov’t will just need to “gift” a summit to Calgary.

    Here in Vancouver, I heard lots of anti-summit comments on the radio… The move wasn’t considered smart out here either…

  • I humbly suggest that everyone take a quick look at the colour of Toronto in the last federal election results. CPC loses no votes over this, and people in Calgary and Vancouver just laugh.

    • Jon Pertwee

      @Shiner, Um Shiner, they dont really like us in Vancouver either… Con MPs start in the suburbs here like Toronto.

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